Broadly seems like good advice! May I share a couple of thoughts, from having been on the other side of the equation:
Men in their 20s are relatively screwed on the dating scene. Men in their 30s or older gain at the expense of men in their 20s, because they compete successfully for the same pool of women in their 20s.
But women who want marriage are rational to prefer to date older men. Both because of the “has learned to clean room” thing you mention — and, I’ve heard from so many women “ah I had a 5 year relationship with a guy in his 20s. Eventually he figured out what he wanted, and that he didn’t want kids (etc).” Mutational load change is real, but if you pull up the statistics, the objective size of the effect is still really small.
I suspect there are ways for women to separate men in their 30s who are legit vs leftovers. For example, by delaying sex until it’s clear that that’s not the guy’s main motivation. And by screening for men who are most able to articulate what they are looking for.
This is 100% great advice I will be doing a read of it on our podcast. 30+ high quality men on the dating market I have met are all delusionaly unrealistic about the type of person they can get and delay marriage like crazy.
Men act like this is mostly a women issue 30+ its more a man issue.
I agree with a lot of this, in particular that "market value" for casual intimacy encounters isn't the same as for marriage, and that yes, people couple up over time, though that is also less true than it used to be.
I think you aren't quite taking the differences in looking for marriage and looking for casual sex far enough. Your appearance just doesn't matter as much for marriage as it does for purely sexual encounters, as your value in marriage is more multi-dimensional than for sex.
So I don't think thinking about your "league" in this way is quite helpful. Thinking in leagues also tempts you to see potential spouses as interchangeable objects to be purchased in the marketplace, which will hinder meaningful connection that could actually lead to marriage.
Nothing in here is incorrect but the whole thing reeks of bourgeois striver stink. A life of prostitutes and hook ups sounds genuinely more erotic than this cold calculus.
Women that are attractive and accomplished that are my friends and relatives (and my wife) mostly marry young men who are just starting out but seem to have potential that they enjoy being with. They could have married rich and more mature older men but did not.
A large part of this actually seems to be women's preferences. IE, as you mention, men are not that open-minded when it comes to dating older women - but they are more open-minded with regards to that than older women with regards to younger men!
So the "wall" is in some ways can at least partially mitigated by being more open-minded than the typical woman.
But then again, if a woman was that open-minded, she would also be much less likely to be single...
I opened the survey to respond but exited once I saw that my Google account's name and email would be recorded with it. You might be able to get more responses if you made it anonymous.
Broadly seems like good advice! May I share a couple of thoughts, from having been on the other side of the equation:
Men in their 20s are relatively screwed on the dating scene. Men in their 30s or older gain at the expense of men in their 20s, because they compete successfully for the same pool of women in their 20s.
But women who want marriage are rational to prefer to date older men. Both because of the “has learned to clean room” thing you mention — and, I’ve heard from so many women “ah I had a 5 year relationship with a guy in his 20s. Eventually he figured out what he wanted, and that he didn’t want kids (etc).” Mutational load change is real, but if you pull up the statistics, the objective size of the effect is still really small.
I suspect there are ways for women to separate men in their 30s who are legit vs leftovers. For example, by delaying sex until it’s clear that that’s not the guy’s main motivation. And by screening for men who are most able to articulate what they are looking for.
This is a great series to be writing. But also I'm 34 - I promise I've just been unlucky!
Man I am 34 too and this sentence of the OP really did sting 😔
This is 100% great advice I will be doing a read of it on our podcast. 30+ high quality men on the dating market I have met are all delusionaly unrealistic about the type of person they can get and delay marriage like crazy.
Men act like this is mostly a women issue 30+ its more a man issue.
Enjoying this series, commenting to boost reach so you can get closer to the twitter fights you want 🙌
I agree with a lot of this, in particular that "market value" for casual intimacy encounters isn't the same as for marriage, and that yes, people couple up over time, though that is also less true than it used to be.
I think you aren't quite taking the differences in looking for marriage and looking for casual sex far enough. Your appearance just doesn't matter as much for marriage as it does for purely sexual encounters, as your value in marriage is more multi-dimensional than for sex.
So I don't think thinking about your "league" in this way is quite helpful. Thinking in leagues also tempts you to see potential spouses as interchangeable objects to be purchased in the marketplace, which will hinder meaningful connection that could actually lead to marriage.
Nothing in here is incorrect but the whole thing reeks of bourgeois striver stink. A life of prostitutes and hook ups sounds genuinely more erotic than this cold calculus.
Thinking about marriage like this is the historical norm. The crude romanticism of romcoms is only something that started with the Boomers.
Women that are attractive and accomplished that are my friends and relatives (and my wife) mostly marry young men who are just starting out but seem to have potential that they enjoy being with. They could have married rich and more mature older men but did not.
Savy women are like savy investors: get in early while the price is low and get rich (metaphorically in the former).
A large part of this actually seems to be women's preferences. IE, as you mention, men are not that open-minded when it comes to dating older women - but they are more open-minded with regards to that than older women with regards to younger men!
So the "wall" is in some ways can at least partially mitigated by being more open-minded than the typical woman.
But then again, if a woman was that open-minded, she would also be much less likely to be single...
I opened the survey to respond but exited once I saw that my Google account's name and email would be recorded with it. You might be able to get more responses if you made it anonymous.
This series is a real education. I wonder if you have considered the risks of a bad marriage and divorce with children in your series?
I discuss it here. https://www.ariababu.co.uk/p/book-review-the-two-parent-privilege
I think, society wide, bad men are life ruining and women should be careful. But I think induviduals can take action to avoid bad men.